Transcripts of recorded sessions & interviews

Dottie: "But it doesn't work for me!"

Gary:  So you have the EFT course and you found that it "doesn't work for you".

Dottie: Not yet.

Gary: And we were talking about a driving fear and anxiety about being a passenger...

Dottie: Only in my husband's vehicle, and he's not a bad driver.

Gary:  "He's not a bad driver" is your logical response. Your emotional response is quite different.

Dottie: Yes.

Gary:  So you'd tap on things like "even though I have this anxiety" and "even though I'm afraid of an accident" and things like that, and while you might get some temporary stuff, in your terms "it came back." Or it didn't stick?

Dottie: Didn't stick.

Gary:  Let me suggest that the idea of it coming back or not sticking, while it certainly appears that way, is not in practice what's happening. What's really happening is that we haven't gotten to the real issue yet and we're tapping too globally. For example, while "even though I'm afraid of an accident" may seem specific, what is even more specific is to go back to some time when you had an accident, when somebody scared you or gave you some trauma or some guilt or some fear or some other emotional response, that you're now replaying when you think about an accident.

Dottie: And I have thought of that but I've never been in any serious accident.

Gary:  O.K., but you don't have to have been in an accident in order to have . . ..see, it's bouncing off of something. If there wasn't something in your past for it to bounce off of, reflect off of, you wouldn't have this issue.

Dottie: I understand.

Gary:  That's the logic of it. So the real skill here is to try to find out what' s behind all that. Now, I don't know if I'm going to do that here or not, but what I'd like you to do is first of all say this for me: I'm really afraid of having an accident.

Dottie: I'm really afraid of having an accident.

Gary:  Now, let me ask you this question and just bring up whatever comes up.

What does that remind you of?

Dottie: Being vulnerable.

Gary:  And what does being vulnerable remind you of? Give me a specific incident, a specific event where you felt vulnerable.

Dottie: Nothing is coming to my mind. Maybe that's too general.

Gary:  Well, was there a time in your life when you were in school or in a relationship or in sports or something, where you felt very vulnerable? Did you get dumped by a boyfriend or husband?

Dottie: Something pops into my mind. It was when I was--it seems so unrelated--but when I was in about 2^nd grade and I hadn't done my homework and the teacher that I liked so very much just put her hands on each side of my face and pulled me up out of my chair and her face was just red with anger. I hadn't done the homework and also had pretty much lied about that I did do it and I just pretended I couldn't find it.

Gary:  She was quite angry at you?

Dottie: Yes, and it was such a shock, because I just adored her. She was an idol to me.

Gary:  As you say that right now do you have emotional intensity?

Dottie: I can see the picture. A little bit. Maybe a four or a five.

Gary:  A four or five. Are there any physical things going on, like a heart pound or sweating.

Dottie: Sort of quivering in my stomach.

Gary:  A quivering in your stomach. Is that what you'd give a four or five?

Dottie: Well, maybe I'm not a good judge.

Gary:  We just need your estimate for the moment.

Dottie: It's not a totally desperate feeling.

Gary:  Let me ask you to do something. I don't want you to actually do it, at least not yet, we'll see later. But answer me this question, without doing it. It's going to require you to guess at something. If you were to close your eyes and vividly imagine this with all the vivid intensity you could pull up, do you think you'd still be a four or five or might you get higher?

Dottie: It might be a seven or eight.

Gary:  That would be your guess? O.K. I don't want you to do it, there's no need for that. Now what I want to point out to you is this may or may not be something that is underlying the anxiety about driving, being a passenger, having an accident, etc. However, I did ask you what these things reminded you of and there's a reasonable possibility that it is at least one of the underlying causes. Whether or not it is for this moment is immaterial. What we're really trying to do here is see if this process is going to work with you for a specific event. And if we find enough specific events sooner or later we'll find the ones that underlie the driving issue. Are you with me?

Dottie: I am.

Gary:  So if you will, tap your karate chop spot for me, consistently, as you say the following. Before you do that, what was your teacher's name?

Dottie: Ms. Much.

Gary:  OK. Tap the karate chop spot. Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Dottie: Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Gary:  Is that a proper phrase?

Dottie: Sure.

Gary:  Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Dottie: Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Gary:  I deeply and completely accept myself.

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself.

Gary:  Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Dottie: Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Gary:  And made me feel vulnerable

Dottie: And made me feel vulnerable

Gary:  And embarrassed me in front of the whole class

Dottie: And embarrassed me in front of the whole class

Gary: And gave me a great deal of fear

Dottie: And gave me a great deal of fear

Gary: Because she was really angry

Dottie: She was really angry

Gary: And I was only in 2^nd grade

Dottie: And I was only in 2^nd grade

Gary: I deeply and completely accept myself.

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself.

Gary: Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Dottie: Even though Ms. Much pulled me up by my face

Gary: And had all that anger

Dottie: And had all that anger

Gary: I have to understand Ms. Much

Dottie: I have to understand Ms. Much

Gary: Because she was coming from her own issues

Dottie: She was coming from her own issues

Gary: They weren't my issues

Dottie: They weren't my issues

Gary: I somehow reminded her of her own issues

Dottie: I somehow reminded her of her own issues

Gary: And she inappropriately took it out on a 2^nd grader

Dottie: And she inappropriately took it out on a 2^nd grader

Gary: And I happened to be that 2^nd grader.

Dottie: And I happened to be that 2^nd grader.

Gary: Tap on the eyebrow point and say pulled me up by my face.

Dottie: Pulled me up by my face.

Gary: Side of the eye, pulled me up by my face.

Dottie:  Pulled me up by my face.

Gary: Under the eye, pulled me up by my face.

Dottie:    Pulled me up by my face.

Gary:  Keep on going down.

Dottie:    Pulled me up by my face. Pulled me up by my face. Pulled me up by my face. Pulled me up by my face. Do you want me to do fingers?

Gary:  No that's O.K.. Just stop for a moment. First of all, how is your stomach?

Dottie:  It's not quivering. It's about a one or two.

Gary:  At the karate chop spot say even though I still have some Ms. Much quivering in my stomach 

Dottie: Even though I still have some Ms. Much quivering in my stomach

Gary:  I deeply and completely accept myself.

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself.

Gary:  I honor my stomach

Dottie: I honor my stomach

Gary:  For giving me this message

Dottie: For giving me this message

Gary:  That I have an unresolved issue.

Dottie: That I have an unresolved issue.   

Gary: That Ms. Much planted 

Dottie: That Ms. Much planted

Gary: Because of her own issues 

Dottie: Because of her own issues

Gary: On a 2^nd grader 

Dottie: On a 2^nd grader

Gary:  I've been carrying it around for a few years now

Dottie: I've been carrying it around for a few years now

Gary: And it is a bit bothersome 

Dottie: And it is a bit bothersome

Gary:  And doesn't need to be there

Dottie: And doesn't need to be there

Gary:  Tap the eyebrow point and say remaining Ms. Much quiver in my stomach

Dottie: Remaining Ms. Much quiver in my stomach

Gary: And go on down the body. 

Dottie: Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach. Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach. Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach. Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach. Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach. Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach. Remaining Ms. Much quivering in my stomach.  Done. 

Gary:  O.K. how is your stomach now?

Dottie: [Sighs]

Gary: By the way, please notice that you just sighed. 

Dottie: I did notice and I also noticed a sigh a little bit when I was tapping. I think it's gone.

Gary:   Well you think it's gone. Is it there or not?

Dottie: Well, it could be a one.   

Gary: It could be a one? All right, I want you to guess for me now, if you were to close your eyes and again vividly imagine the incident--don't do it yet, if you did, though, do you think you'd be a seven or eight on this issue? 

Dottie: No.   

Gary:  What do you think you would be?

Dottie:  A three or four.  

Gary:  A three or four. Tap the karate chop spot. Before you do that let me ask you, does any new remembrance come up?

Dottie:  No. But what I also might say, I'm probably a little bit nervous just doing this with you on the phone. I feel very honored that you're responding to this and so I probably feel a little bit nervous about that, so that may be responsible for some of the feeling in my stomach.

Gary:  You feel honored because I'm the founder of it?

Dottie:  Yes, I thought I'd throw that in.

Gary: That's O.K.. See that reflects off of some other issue. Perhaps, and I'm going to guess at this for a moment, it's some kind of a deserving issue. 

Dottie:  Yes a self-worth issue.

Gary:  I don't really deserve to have the founder work with me, or something. 

Dottie: Yes, exactly.

Gary:  By the way, just so you know, of this possibility, it may be that you are done with this Ms. Much issue and what you're feeling is a new issue, a new aspect or a new issue altogether, and that's what's giving you the sense of nervousness if you will. What I'd like to have you do now--just to test this--is take a moment and vividly imagine this Ms. Much thing.

However, here are the instructions. Instruction number one and the most important instruction is that you STAY ON THAT EVENT. The tendency may be for you to shift off to some other event, some other vulnerability issue, some other fear issue or something like that. What we want to do is test that specific event and we want to know what emotional intensity you get once you do this.

The other thing is when you close your eyes to imagine it, what you do is you imagine it as vividly as you possibly can, meaning you exaggerate the sights, the sounds and the feelings and you literally try to get yourself upset about it. the moment you get any kind of upset, a quiver in the stomach or anything else, you stop instantly ... because that means we haven't done our job yet ... and we have more to do. So go ahead, and then let me know when you're done.

Dottie: well, I still feel some reaction.

Gary:  What number would you give it?

Dottie: A three or four.

Gary:  That's what you were guessing, O.K. Now, where in this event, where in this movie you were just running in your mind did you feel this three or four, do you recall?

Dottie: When she actually pulled me up out of the desk. It was just such a shock to me. Just such a shock.

Gary:  Notice the words you used, it was such a shock to me ... those words were not used before in our process were they?

Dottie: Oh.

Gary:  Just notice that. That could be a new aspect and we're going to go down that road. Tap the karate chop spot and say even though this Ms. Much event

Dottie: Even though this Ms. Much event

Gary:  Shocked me

Dottie: Shocked me

Gary:  I deeply and completely accept myself

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself

Gary:  It startled me

Dottie: It startled me

Gary:  I was in 2^nd grade

Dottie: I was in 2^nd grade

Gary:  What was I to think

Dottie: What was I to think

Gary:  What was wrong with me?

Dottie: What was wrong with me?

Gary:  It came out of the blue

Dottie: It came out of the blue

Gary:  It simply startled me 

Dottie: It simply startled me

Gary:  Like somebody throwing a snake on my desk

Dottie: Like somebody throwing a snake on my desk

Gary:  I deeply and completely accept myself

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself

Gary:  And even though I may not understand it

Dottie: And even though I may not understand it

Gary:  I have to be open to the possibility

Dottie: I have to be open to the possibility

Gary:  That Ms. Much 

Dottie: That Ms. Much

Gary:  Was the one with the real problem here.

Dottie: Was the one with the real problem here.

Gary: By the way, how does that sound to you logically?

Dottie: Well, logically it's right but my thought process is I really disappointed her.

Gary:  O.K., a new issue by the way. A new aspect. See how important  that is? But logically the fact that she's the one with the issue seems logical. You just don't respond emotionally that way. But now you're coming up with with the thought that you disappointed her.

Dottie: I'd been such a good little girl, how could I do that to her?

Gary:  Say this for me. Say Ms. Much really shocked me.

Dottie: Ms. Much really shocked me.

Gary: Ms. Much really shocked me when she pulled me up by my face

Dottie: Ms. Much really shocked me when she pulled me up by my face

Gary:  On a scale of zero to 10, how is that?

Dottie: It's much better.

Gary:  Is it a zero, one, two?

Dottie: A two.

Gary:  How do you know it's a two?

Dottie: Actually, I guess I just guessed at that, because it's a lot less than what it was before.

Gary:  Interesting. You guessed that. It may be zero.

Dottie: Yes.

Gary:  I'm not saying it is zero, I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm only pointing out that sometimes what people do is they react to these things in a way that says "it's not supposed to be gone so something is supposed to stay there, and therefore I'll call it a two." Close your eyes for a moment, in a second and vividly imagine this again but get to that shock thing and see if it's still a shock. And then let me know. Go ahead.

Dottie: No, it's not.

Gary:  Is it a zero?

Dottie:  Yes.

Gary:  Say, I really disappointed her.

Dottie: I really disappointed her.

Gary:  How does that feel to say?

Dottie: It almost hurts.

Gary:  When you say almost hurts, how do you know it almost hurts?

Dottie: It almost hurts emotionally, that I disappointed her so much.

Gary:  When you say it almost hurts, what almost hurts?

Dottie: It almost makes me feel sad, it makes me feel sad. It's definitely sadness.

Gary:  You get sort of a catch in the throat or a tightness in the chest? I'm making this up, but is there a physical thing that . . .

Dottie: Like a pit in my stomach kind of thing. Like a little, I don't know tightness maybe, or something.

Gary:  Who else did you disappoint in your life?

Dottie: Hmm. I want to say my mother, but I don't know that I did.

Gary:  Well, if you did disappoint your mother when would it have been?

Dottie: Nothing specific, just that I . . . . .I don't know, I didn't show her the love that she deserved maybe or that she wanted.

Gary:  Is there a specific time that tells you you may not have done that?

Dottie: The only time I can remember that I flagrantly showed that was when I pulled out a cigarette and smoked it in front of her, but I was already I think 21 or something like that.

Gary:  But you still had this sense of I'm disappointing my mother.

Dottie: Yes.

Gary:  I'm not living up . . .

Dottie: But that isn't real strong. Now it doesn't ring real right, you know?

Gary:  We're going to do a little global tapping on this issue. It may be that some specific event will come up, we'll just have to wait and see. Tap the karate chop spot and say even though I disappointed people in my life

Dottie: Even though I disappointed people in my life

Gary:  And haven't lived up to the expectations of others

Dottie: And haven't lived up to the expectations of others

Gary:  And haven't lived up to even my own expectations

Dottie: And haven't lived up to even my own expectations

Gary:  Which by the way were planted there by others

Dottie: Which by the way were planted there by others

Gary:  Otherwise how would I have known what the expectations were

Dottie: Otherwise how would I have known what the expectations were

Gary:  I deeply and completely accept myself

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself

Gary:  Just like everybody else

Dottie: Just like everybody else

Gary:  I run around through this life

Dottie: I run around through this life

Gary:  With a set of rules

Dottie: With a set of rules

Gary:  A bunch of shoulds

Dottie: A bunch of shoulds

Gary:  Should-nots

Dottie: Should-nots

Gary:  Musts

Dottie: Musts

Gary:  Must-nots

Dottie: Must-nots

Gary:  Cans

Dottie: Cans

Gary:  Can'ts

Dottie: Can'ts

Gary:  And all that stuff

Dottie: And all that stuff

Gary:  And everybody else has a different set than I do

Dottie: And everybody else has a different set than I do

Gary:  But I somehow think my set is the appropriate set

Dottie: But I somehow think my set is the appropriate set

Gary:  Maybe my real problem

Dottie: Maybe my real problem

Gary: Is that I'm arrogant.

Dottie: Is what?

Gary:  That I'm arrogant

Dottie: Oh, that I'm arrogant.

Gary:  And that my rules count more than other people's

Dottie: And that my rules count more than other's

Gary:  They certainly count more to me!

Dottie: They certainly count more to me!

Gary:  I bought them

Dottie: I bought them

Gary:  If it wasn't for those rules

Dottie: If it wasn't for those rules

Gary:  I wouldn't be disappointing anybody

Dottie: I wouldn't be disappointing anybody.

Gary:  I deeply and completely accept myself

Dottie: I deeply and completely accept myself

Gary:  Although I don't know why.

Dottie: Sorry?

Gary:  Although I don't know why.

Dottie: Although I don't know why.

Gary:  I'll just disappoint myself

Dottie: I'll just disappoint myself

Gary:  So why accept myself in advance.

Dottie: So why accept myself in advance

Gary:  It's useless

Dottie: It's useless

Gary:  But I'll try anyway.

Dottie: But I'll try anyway.

Gary:  Tap the eyebrow point and say disappointing others.

Dottie: Disappointing others.

Gary:  Side of the eye, disappointing myself.

Dottie: Disappointing myself.

Gary:  Under the eye, all these rules

Dottie: All these rules

Gary:  Under the nose, being arrogant

Dottie: Being arrogant

Gary:  Chin point, only my rules count

Dottie: Only my rules count

Gary:  Collar bone point, even though those rules were given to me by others

Dottie: Even though those rules were given to me by others

Gary:  Under the arm, all these rules

Dottie: All these rules

Gary:  Stop there. Say this for me and tell me on a scale of zero to ten and be as honest about it as you can, say these words and then tell me how true they sound. I disappoint people. 

Dottie: I disappoint people.

Gary:  How true does that sound to you?

Dottie: They're not true.

Gary:  Is that a zero, a one, a two?

Dottie: [pause] it's a one.

Gary:  Say I disappointed Ms. Much

Dottie: I disappointed Ms. Much

Gary:  How true does that sound?

Dottie: True.

Gary:  How true, give me a number?

Dottie: Well logically it's not true.

Gary:  I want the emotional response.

Dottie: I disappointed Ms. Much. No.

Gary:  No what?

Dottie: It's a zero or a one. 

Gary:  Are you speaking logically or emotionally?

Dottie: I'm trying to speak emotionally.

Gary:  Say I disappointed my mother

Dottie: I disappointed my mother

Gary:  How true does that seem, emotionally?

Dottie: Hmmm . . ..a two.

Gary:  We're going to leave that be for a moment. I want you to do something else if I can. First of all I need to have you give me a guess because we never did this to begin with. But if before doing any of this tapping during this telephone conversation, if I had asked you to imagine yourself in the back seat of a car in the most anxious circumstance you could imagine about driving, freeways, backseat passenger, whatever, and asked you to vividly imagine such incidents, what number do you think you would have gotten to?

Dottie: I would be eight or nine.

Gary:  Eight or nine. What number do you think you would get to now if you did that? Don't do it, just give me a guess.

Dottie: Oh, oh. (pause)

Gary:  You're doing it!

Dottie: I can't stop. . .

Gary:  Do this, go ahead and vividly imagine, exaggerate the sights, sounds, feelings, etc. Try to get yourself upset. The moment you do, you stop. But go ahead and do it mentally, and then tell me what happens. Go ahead.

Dottie: Nope, I can't get there.

Gary:  So you thought it would be a seven or a eight and now you're getting zero?

Dottie: Yes.

Gary:  At least mentally doing it?

Dottie: Yes.

Gary:  What I want to suggest to you is that this does not mean your driving fear is over. It doesn't mean that at all. It does suggest rather strongly that there are some other emotional issues underlying that, that we have now tapped on, that somehow influence the degree of your anxiety. It may be you'll get in a car and never have a problem again, but you'll only know that when you get in a car. And then if you do get some anxiety, please notice what the anxiety is. Is it a different kind of anxiety, is it the same intensity, do different things have to happen to get to anxious, etc. What you're looking at there is not that it didn't work or not that it didn't stick, it's that we have more to do still. Do you see the difference?

Dottie: I do.

Gary:  That's important. Now, say this for me. Say I disappointed my mother

Dottie: I disappointed my mother

Gary:  Is that a two?

Dottie: It's a nothing. Yes, because more, she disappointed me.

Gary:  Oh! Now listen, this is really important, because you just now had a cognitive shift. It isn't that you disappointed her. We did all this and now as you look at it, it's she disappointed you, by whatever means. That's kind of interesting, huh?

Dottie: Yes. I knew that logically, but emotionally it was different to begin with.

Gary:  Yes, and that's the whole point. See, if we responded to things according to what's logical we wouldn't need therapists. It's not logical, for example, to get upset by some rape somebody had 20 years ago; it's not logical. But indeed, that's not how we respond. We respond emotionally.  

Gary:  I hope this helps. I'd be curious what happens the next time you get in a car. Notice if you even have the anxiety.  And remember we never directly tapped on the fear of driving, did we?

Dottie: No.

Gary:  So there may still be some stuff left. But you cannot get above a zero vividly trying to imagine it?

Dottie: No.

Gary:  At least for now?

Dottie: No.

Gary:  O.K. then we did something apparently.

Dottie: Yes, we did something.

Gary:  Keep at it. Thanks Dottie.

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